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	<title>Comments on: Patriots beat Satria Muda again to go 2-0 up in ABL finals</title>
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	<link>http://redhoops.com/2010/02/18/patriots-satria-muda-game-2/</link>
	<description>The 1st pan-ASEAN basketball site</description>
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		<title>By: Hanoi-Can Tho</title>
		<link>http://redhoops.com/2010/02/18/patriots-satria-muda-game-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2446</link>
		<dc:creator>Hanoi-Can Tho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redhoops.com/?p=2442#comment-2446</guid>
		<description>Referees will never be consistent, same as player,there are good and bad nights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Referees will never be consistent, same as player,there are good and bad nights.</p>
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		<title>By: lrangels</title>
		<link>http://redhoops.com/2010/02/18/patriots-satria-muda-game-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2427</link>
		<dc:creator>lrangels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redhoops.com/?p=2442#comment-2427</guid>
		<description>@mart.  Actually, some teams do scout the referees so that they would know what types of adjustments they would work on.

In fact, on team USA&#039;s scrimmage or practices, they always bring in FIBA referees from other countries so that they would be able to know their nuances as well as for the players to adjust and interact with certain officials.  Sounds expensive, but hey!, it&#039;s team USA, they got a very good (if not excellent) financial capability.

@3stars. P&#039;re, I don&#039;t really know, and I don&#039;t think it&#039;s also fair to say that it only happens in Manila. I think a good reference here was the tightness of the referees on game one of the finals. That&#039;s because the calls made by the referees are always based on judgement calls, and the pace of the game at times affects it. So if there&#039;s a conspiracy behind those calls, it&#039;s very hard to conclude that there really is something&#039;s fishy going on.  Unless, we can come up with such very compelling evidence.

Again, there&#039;s also the culture factor. It&#039;s alright if the game is physical on certain cultures. In others, it&#039;s not. That&#039;s why I read some comments that says this guy made a dirty play, but when I saw it, I don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything dirty about it. You get the picture.

;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mart.  Actually, some teams do scout the referees so that they would know what types of adjustments they would work on.</p>
<p>In fact, on team USA&#8217;s scrimmage or practices, they always bring in FIBA referees from other countries so that they would be able to know their nuances as well as for the players to adjust and interact with certain officials.  Sounds expensive, but hey!, it&#8217;s team USA, they got a very good (if not excellent) financial capability.</p>
<p>@3stars. P&#8217;re, I don&#8217;t really know, and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s also fair to say that it only happens in Manila. I think a good reference here was the tightness of the referees on game one of the finals. That&#8217;s because the calls made by the referees are always based on judgement calls, and the pace of the game at times affects it. So if there&#8217;s a conspiracy behind those calls, it&#8217;s very hard to conclude that there really is something&#8217;s fishy going on.  Unless, we can come up with such very compelling evidence.</p>
<p>Again, there&#8217;s also the culture factor. It&#8217;s alright if the game is physical on certain cultures. In others, it&#8217;s not. That&#8217;s why I read some comments that says this guy made a dirty play, but when I saw it, I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything dirty about it. You get the picture.</p>
<p> <img src='http://redhoops.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: mart</title>
		<link>http://redhoops.com/2010/02/18/patriots-satria-muda-game-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2420</link>
		<dc:creator>mart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redhoops.com/?p=2442#comment-2420</guid>
		<description>GymRat is spot on (letting the players know on how the game will be called)..

But I think they should do the orientation/interpretation of the rules at the start of the tournament not at the start of each game.   So that teams will have time to prepare.

But in reality,  whenever there&#039;s a melee/fracas or even a protest made by a team after a game,  the refs will adjust their calls for the succeeding games.   The refs should be consistent in interpreting the rules.  the league should not not give in.

I think some of the teams also scout the referees.   They can exploit a ref&#039;s tendencies/judgments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GymRat is spot on (letting the players know on how the game will be called)..</p>
<p>But I think they should do the orientation/interpretation of the rules at the start of the tournament not at the start of each game.   So that teams will have time to prepare.</p>
<p>But in reality,  whenever there&#8217;s a melee/fracas or even a protest made by a team after a game,  the refs will adjust their calls for the succeeding games.   The refs should be consistent in interpreting the rules.  the league should not not give in.</p>
<p>I think some of the teams also scout the referees.   They can exploit a ref&#8217;s tendencies/judgments.</p>
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		<title>By: jerby</title>
		<link>http://redhoops.com/2010/02/18/patriots-satria-muda-game-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2413</link>
		<dc:creator>jerby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redhoops.com/?p=2442#comment-2413</guid>
		<description>Hi Kelvin, all I&#039;m after is to have better sports writing on this site. It ain&#039;t personal, it&#039;s about good writing. I know I&#039;m just a guy who posts on forums but I think Stella Oo&#039;s articles are just so low brow reportage. Somehow, she should know these things, so she can get better. I&#039;m not trying to be pejorative, but I&#039;ve read better sports writing done by high school students here in my island. 

Beyond the drama,... a more objective press release from ABL please.

Yeah, the officiating of ABL needs an upgrade

Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kelvin, all I&#8217;m after is to have better sports writing on this site. It ain&#8217;t personal, it&#8217;s about good writing. I know I&#8217;m just a guy who posts on forums but I think Stella Oo&#8217;s articles are just so low brow reportage. Somehow, she should know these things, so she can get better. I&#8217;m not trying to be pejorative, but I&#8217;ve read better sports writing done by high school students here in my island. </p>
<p>Beyond the drama,&#8230; a more objective press release from ABL please.</p>
<p>Yeah, the officiating of ABL needs an upgrade</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Kelvin</title>
		<link>http://redhoops.com/2010/02/18/patriots-satria-muda-game-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2408</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redhoops.com/?p=2442#comment-2408</guid>
		<description>Great points by Gym Rat...good refs are supposed to meet before the game and discuss how they will interpret the judgmental issues...and they will tell the captains how they will call before the tip off...and will be talking to the players throughout the game...esp on judgment calls...e.g watch your hand checking number 7...watch your hand checking....then whistle.

Anyway, like most readers already know...experienced players and coaches need to adapt to the refs.  Except for blatant biasness....everything else, good calls, bad calls, no calls is all a part of the in-game adjustment and management.

Thats also why vision and judgement are not real issues, the poor calls are the inconsistent ones, that the teams can&#039;t adjust to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great points by Gym Rat&#8230;good refs are supposed to meet before the game and discuss how they will interpret the judgmental issues&#8230;and they will tell the captains how they will call before the tip off&#8230;and will be talking to the players throughout the game&#8230;esp on judgment calls&#8230;e.g watch your hand checking number 7&#8230;watch your hand checking&#8230;.then whistle.</p>
<p>Anyway, like most readers already know&#8230;experienced players and coaches need to adapt to the refs.  Except for blatant biasness&#8230;.everything else, good calls, bad calls, no calls is all a part of the in-game adjustment and management.</p>
<p>Thats also why vision and judgement are not real issues, the poor calls are the inconsistent ones, that the teams can&#8217;t adjust to.</p>
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		<title>By: 3stars</title>
		<link>http://redhoops.com/2010/02/18/patriots-satria-muda-game-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2401</link>
		<dc:creator>3stars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 04:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redhoops.com/?p=2442#comment-2401</guid>
		<description>@irangels, mart and gym rat... with all of the things you said which i all agree lets go back on the article where all of this started..is there still justice in saying that it only happens in manila ??? 

i think all of us agree that this doesnt happen solely on patriots ground

what bothers me the most is that its the same press release from abl website..with the author questioning the credibility of the referees is the same as questioning the credibility of the organization itself, where referees are a vital part... isnt it self incriminating</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@irangels, mart and gym rat&#8230; with all of the things you said which i all agree lets go back on the article where all of this started..is there still justice in saying that it only happens in manila ??? </p>
<p>i think all of us agree that this doesnt happen solely on patriots ground</p>
<p>what bothers me the most is that its the same press release from abl website..with the author questioning the credibility of the referees is the same as questioning the credibility of the organization itself, where referees are a vital part&#8230; isnt it self incriminating</p>
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		<title>By: Hanoi-Quang Nam Province</title>
		<link>http://redhoops.com/2010/02/18/patriots-satria-muda-game-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2400</link>
		<dc:creator>Hanoi-Quang Nam Province</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 04:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redhoops.com/?p=2442#comment-2400</guid>
		<description>better to play, than be a referee..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>better to play, than be a referee..</p>
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		<title>By: gym rat</title>
		<link>http://redhoops.com/2010/02/18/patriots-satria-muda-game-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2398</link>
		<dc:creator>gym rat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redhoops.com/?p=2442#comment-2398</guid>
		<description>A couple of thoughts: 

Referees officiating at these levels generally call it both ways, regardless of how they interpret the contact rules. There are good and there are better refs, but as they are under a microscope on these bigger stages, they are not biased as they will be running their last game if they are. Savvy players pick up on individual officiating nuances and know what they can get away with. This is part of becoming a &quot;game-wise&quot; player. Not coincidentally, the best clutch players are in this group, and often get to the foul line at crucial moments.

The second point is that the better referees, whether under US or FIBA rules (from experience), will tell the team captains before the game starts, how they will call the game (e.g. &quot;if you reach around the back I will call it&quot;, &quot;I will call the lane violations&quot;, etc.). To reduce the unpredictability factor, it would be good for the ABL referees to consistently adapt this practice so as to avoid protests of perceived ommitted or committed calls later, and still allow them to officiate as they interpret the rules or in the style they prefer.

Strictly my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of thoughts: </p>
<p>Referees officiating at these levels generally call it both ways, regardless of how they interpret the contact rules. There are good and there are better refs, but as they are under a microscope on these bigger stages, they are not biased as they will be running their last game if they are. Savvy players pick up on individual officiating nuances and know what they can get away with. This is part of becoming a &#8220;game-wise&#8221; player. Not coincidentally, the best clutch players are in this group, and often get to the foul line at crucial moments.</p>
<p>The second point is that the better referees, whether under US or FIBA rules (from experience), will tell the team captains before the game starts, how they will call the game (e.g. &#8220;if you reach around the back I will call it&#8221;, &#8220;I will call the lane violations&#8221;, etc.). To reduce the unpredictability factor, it would be good for the ABL referees to consistently adapt this practice so as to avoid protests of perceived ommitted or committed calls later, and still allow them to officiate as they interpret the rules or in the style they prefer.</p>
<p>Strictly my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Hanoi-Quang Nam Province</title>
		<link>http://redhoops.com/2010/02/18/patriots-satria-muda-game-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2395</link>
		<dc:creator>Hanoi-Quang Nam Province</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redhoops.com/?p=2442#comment-2395</guid>
		<description>Switching Wuysang over from bajar is not good decision.
I prefer SMB guard should be bajar and wijaya.. Wuysang and faisal out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Switching Wuysang over from bajar is not good decision.<br />
I prefer SMB guard should be bajar and wijaya.. Wuysang and faisal out.</p>
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		<title>By: lrangels</title>
		<link>http://redhoops.com/2010/02/18/patriots-satria-muda-game-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2393</link>
		<dc:creator>lrangels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redhoops.com/?p=2442#comment-2393</guid>
		<description>@mart I agree!  I think coaches and players should familiarize themselves about the referees. Which calls this ref love to whistle? Is that referee would call a foul with a slight touch? Is this referee seldom blows a whistle till he sees blood? ...you know, just certain nuances.

Also, it would be a key to keep the core of their respective teams together.  A good example is the Slingers, they should keep Jeffers, LeBlanc, and Al Vergara as well as Desmond Oh, Marcus Ng, and Pathman.  I also expect that the Patriots will try to keep Dixon and Freeman for next season.

;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mart I agree!  I think coaches and players should familiarize themselves about the referees. Which calls this ref love to whistle? Is that referee would call a foul with a slight touch? Is this referee seldom blows a whistle till he sees blood? &#8230;you know, just certain nuances.</p>
<p>Also, it would be a key to keep the core of their respective teams together.  A good example is the Slingers, they should keep Jeffers, LeBlanc, and Al Vergara as well as Desmond Oh, Marcus Ng, and Pathman.  I also expect that the Patriots will try to keep Dixon and Freeman for next season.</p>
<p> <img src='http://redhoops.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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